By Matthew Fava
CMC Ontario has been collaborating with the artistic team at the Hamilton Philharmonic Orchestra on an ambitious Composer Fellowship Program, which has expanded in 2020 to feature two composers, including Luis Ramirez. Composer, pianist, and conductor Luis Ramirez moved to Toronto in 2018 to pursue graduate studies and has quickly established himself within the region as a creative and collaborative artist. As the HPO program gets underway, Luis and I found some time to message one another about his artistic life, and experiences with the HPO thus far.
Photo of composer Luis Ramirez
fava.matthew 10:17 AM | Hey Luis, once you join this Slack workspace we can use this messaging channel for the interview
Luis Ramirez 10:28 AM | Awesome, thanks Matthew! See you at 1pm
fava.matthew 12:56 PM | Hey Luis, just a heads up I am lounging at my desk and at the ready
Lounging = working
Luis Ramirez 12:59 PM | I am almost there give me 82 seconds!
fava.matthew 1:00 PM | LOL
Luis Ramirez 1:01 PM | Okay okay I’m ready!
fava.matthew 1:02 PM | How was your gig yesterday? The band is Amarras, correct? I am sorry that I was not able to attend
Luis Ramirez 1:04 PM | Haha oh the gig was excellent! We had a really huge turnout, especially for a Sunday afternoon!
fava.matthew 1:04 PM |That’s wonderful to hear!
Luis Ramirez 1:04 PM | It’s so cool there, Drom is a great venue and it feels very ad hoc to the music we play
fava.matthew 1:05 PM | You must tell me more about this music you are making together. In particular, I understand that you got a commission to write for the group (apart from playing as a member)?
You have bandoneon, violin, piano…
what is the full complement?
Luis Ramirez 1:07 PM | Absolutely! Thanks for asking, it is something that has me very excited. We are playing mostly contemporary tangos, although we play some oldies that people like to dance to. Most of the contemporary tangos we play are by Julian Peralta, who is an incredible composer and I had the pleasure of meeting him last year in a tango workshop that happened in July.
fava.matthew 1:07 PM | I wasn’t familiar with Peralta’s work! It has been added to my planned listening
Luis Ramirez 1:08 PM | And my band Amarras started in October of last year, and I have become very close friends with its members
1:10 | We have Aparna Halpe, a poet and teacher on the violin; Soohyun Nam, an immigration lawyer and expert knitter on the cello; Daniel Lalonde, a freelance bassist and recent father on the bass, and Clint Popetz, a CTO of a tech company and our band leader on the bandoneon
and me on piano lol
fava.matthew 1:11 PM | HAHA! Amazing group
Luis Ramirez 1:11 PM | Yeah! Peralta’s work is fantastic. It’s like this beautiful hybrid of Beethoven, Stravinsky, Pugliese…. I love his music. I would recommend you listen to his band, Astillero, and in particular their album Quilombo. That’s pretty much most of the music we play.
1:12 | But anyway, we applied to the Ontario Arts Council and we were so fortunate to receive this Music Creation grant!
fava.matthew 1:12 PM | That is wonderful news
Luis Ramirez 1:14 PM | It means that I will be composing about ten tangos this year, and we will premiere them in July for our tango workshop. But in short, since most of us are immigrants I will be exploring certain topics that pertain to the multicultural aspects of Toronto and life as immigrants
fava.matthew 1:16 PM | This discussion leads me into a question regarding your early musical life. Given this vibrant and active role that you play as a composer and performer, I wonder whether one or the other came first for you (as an area of interest), or whether the two coincided? Did you always feel compelled to do both?
Luis Ramirez 1:16 PM | Not at all!
I grew up thinking I would be a pianist
1:17 | and thought that for a long time
until I finished my piano masters and I was like: “Hmm… I am not sure this is what I want”
fava.matthew 1:17 PM | Oh, woah, quite a distance to travel!
What happened then?
Luis Ramirez 1:21 PM | Yeah! I mean, I tried my hand at composition when I was 15, but it was merely as a result of my arrogance as a teenager. In 2007 there was a summer music workshop happening in my hometown for the first time ever, and my teenager ego was soooo confident that there was nothing else I could possibly learn about piano that I decided to enroll into composition instead
big mistake!
fava.matthew 1:22 PM | HAHA
oh no
Luis Ramirez 1:22 PM | I realized it was much harder than I thought and made me feel so insecure! Haha
1:23 | in hindsight it was great, I always look back fondly at those moments that deflated my ego
fava.matthew 1:23 PM | So the Luis Ramirez that emerged from a masters program had a much different perspective on the prospect of composing
I look at your work now, and it is quite exciting to hear your voice
which feels distinct
Luis Ramirez 1:23 PM | Absolutely! It was during my masters in piano that I had a realization: I loved music more than just piano; piano was just my means of approaching it
1:25 | so I decided to do a masters in composition and it felt like a candy store to my infinite curiosity and imagination
fava.matthew 1:26 PM |
Luis Ramirez 1:26 PM | What I loved about my compositional training is that I was never taught how to compose
fava.matthew 1:26 PM | Interesting
Did it become a dialogue about what you wanted as an outcome of composition?
Luis Ramirez 1:28 PM| I think my then teacher, Pat Carrabré, just wanted to help me know what had been done, you know? He guided me with examples of things that sounded like what I would describe to him, what’s out there, and every so often a warning of how scary and terrible the real world is
1:29 | What he did teach me was sooooo much about what happens behind the scenes
fava.matthew 1:29 PM | AH
Luis Ramirez 1:29 PM | that’s what I am the most grateful for
1:30 | But what I really liked about him, which is similar to my current teacher, Randolph Peters, is that I never felt anything was imposed on me
fava.matthew 1:31 PM | Excellent. That feels paramount in a mentorship
Luis Ramirez 1:31 PM | Which is unfortunately where I sense struggle with many other students
fava.matthew 1:31 PM | Now I have a few threads that I would like to pursue
BUT
maybe I will ask a question related to your time in Brandon (where you were studying with Pat)
1:32 | You worked with the Brandon Community Orchestra
And you talked about “experimenting with them”!
Luis Ramirez 1:32 PM | hell yeah, that was so fun
fava.matthew 1:33 PM | Can you tell us about your time with the BCO (you were a conductor with them, but did you compose for them as well?)
How was the experimentation, what did you try/learn?
Luis Ramirez 1:33 PM | Oh that was one of the best jobs I’ve had
1:34 PM | It was the very first time I was working as a conductor, and it revealed to me that *maybe* that’s what I would like to do in the future?
It’s just fantastic to be in a position of facilitating collective music making
fava.matthew 1:34 PM | Agreeeeeeeed!
1:35 | And while an orchestra is a hierarchical being, a community space allows for a less formal structure to be evolved
Luis Ramirez 1:35 PM | And the energy in the room is so fulfilling, especially because it is a community orchestra
I mean these people all have their “real jobs” and stuff, you know? But their love of music is such that they want to invest time into getting together every week and working on music
1:36 | for me that’s the power of music
1:37 | and it is so easy for me to relate to that because of my love for music
so taking this job for me felt like project management or something like that, where I am just helping everyone reach the same goal
1:38 | and helping is one of my favorite things as well
so, yeah
fava.matthew 1:38 PM | HA! Yes!
Luis Ramirez 1:38 PM | They were a great group of people
And I got to write for them!
1:39 PM | And take them out of their comfort zone
fava.matthew 1:39 PM | And they trusted you, I take it?
Luis Ramirez 1:40 PM | I sure hope so!
I wrote a piece for them with no rhythm!
and it was so scary for them!
but I wanted them to give it a try
and after embracing it, they said they really enjoyed it!
fava.matthew 1:41 PM | Amazing
Luis Ramirez 1:42 PM | It was more specifically a section in my piece “The Threshold of Sleep” where they would be given only pitches with which they would improvise as I cue different harmonic “zones”
fava.matthew 1:42 PM | THAT is such a fun way to depart from rhythmic determinism
Luis Ramirez 1:42 PM | it was!
fava.matthew 1:42 PM | and a low risk way as well, when you think about it
Luis Ramirez 1:43 PM | haha, exactly
it felt appropriate
A performance of Ramirez’s The Threshold of Sleep, performed by the BCO and conducted by Ramirez
fava.matthew 1:43 PM | I should ask, did you work with Randolph while you were in Manitoba? Was he part of your motivation for studying at York upon arrival in TO?
Luis Ramirez 1:44 PM | Yes, I worked with him when he was in Winnipeg. He visited Brandon every now and then
1:45 | I felt that we had chemistry really quickly, I only got a few lessons but felt very comfortable
1:46 | And he is very hip and up to date with technology so we could talk easily
He is why I came to Toronto!
fava.matthew 1:46 PM | OK
HERE IS WHERE I MUST ASK
1:47 | What’s with this guy, Jacob Collier.
do you like his music or something?
Luis Ramirez 1:47 PM | HA!
I mean, a bit…
Ugh, it’s so hard to talk about it, you know?
fava.matthew 1:47 PM | I KNOW
Luis Ramirez 1:48 PM | Because I am writing papers on him and have to be empirical and shit…
fava.matthew 1:48 PM | ha, exactly
Luis Ramirez 1:48 PM | avoid hagiography….
but he’s JUST SOOO GOOD
fava.matthew 1:48 PM | HAHAHAHAAAAAA
Ok, can you encapsulate for us
this particular affinity you feel to his music, his process
Luis Ramirez 1:48 PM | There’s so much of him that I resonate with
plus we share the same birthday
fava.matthew 1:49 PM | WHOA
Luis Ramirez 1:49 PM | I KNOW
fava.matthew 1:49 PM | Signs on signs
Luis Ramirez 1:49 PM | I just imagine that he does what I would have loved to do growing up
But you know what my favorite thing about him is? That he encourages sooo much to his listeners and fans to be themselves
1:50 | I feel that there is a lot of danger with a figure like him of people imitating what he does
and homogenizing the musicscape
1:51 | so that’s why I like his philosophical take on music
And in my opinion, he is contributing in so many ways to the musical landscape
fava.matthew 1:51 PM | Again, not an imposition of aesthetic, more of an opening to the possibilities
Luis Ramirez 1:51 | exactly! Because his music itself is not even confined to anything
1:52 | He is a musical piñata
And who doesn’t like what comes out of a piñata?
fava.matthew 1:52 PM | This… is a wonderful analogy…
Luis Ramirez 1:52 PM | That’s my official academic summary
fava.matthew 1:53 PM | HAHA, but to be clear, we are not encouraging people to wear blindfolds and swing a large stick at Jacob Collier
Luis Ramirez 1:53 PM | HAHA
Please don’t
he’s very young
fava.matthew 1:53 PM | Now, the whole reason that we are speaking today….
is the HPO Fellowship!
1:54 | Congrats on being selected
Luis Ramirez 1:54 PM | oh that’s right!
thank you
fava.matthew 1:54 PM | We are fairly early in the process, can you share with us what you have been up to? Are you in dialogue with artistic staff at the HPO at this point?
Luis Ramirez 1:55 PM | Hold up, I need to brush my teeth
fava.matthew 1:55 PM | Amazing.
1:56 | First interview that I have ever done with a live toothbrushing
Luis Ramirez 1:56 PM | haha, it’s not easahy to tyjpe amdbrhush
ok i am done sorry
fava.matthew 1:56 PM | LOOOOOOOOOOL
Luis Ramirez 1:57 PM | So far I have attended the rehearsals and performance of their Tchaikovsky concert and it was wonderful! They are so goooood! I really like the orchestra
They seemed HAPPY! And like they enjoyed their jobs!
fava.matthew 1:57 PM | Oh, now that is impressive these days
Luis Ramirez 1:57 PM | I know!
1:58 | Also Abigail is so wonderful, she gave a talk about Tchaikovsky and his life during a Tea and Talk event and I really admire her! so much research work put into it and it flows very naturally from her
and the audience is so engaged! They love her and they are very supportive of the organization
fava.matthew 1:58 PM | Yeah, that sounds about right re: Abigail!
Luis Ramirez 1:59 PM | So far I have been very pleased with this experience, and I am so looking forward to the next few months
fava.matthew 1:59 PM | Do you have any ideas in place for the piece you will be writing?
Luis Ramirez 1:59 PM | right now I am still in conceptual work for my piece, but I can elaborate on that if you want
fava.matthew 1:59 PM | Give us the elevator pitch!
It better not be Die Hard but in an orchestra
Luis Ramirez 2:00 PM | The whole thing was actually informed by the format of this concert, it is during their Intimate and Immersive concerts
they do the concert in an abandoned factory, and so the audience is surrounding the orchestra
And I believe they encourage them to change seats between pieces? So they get a new perspective visually and aurally
fava.matthew 2:01 PM | Oh, nice
Luis Ramirez 2:01 PM | plus there’s a bunch of lights and collaboration with artists for installations and video projections
so, it is a multimedia experience!
2:02 | But anyway, I maybe don’t need to expand on how the concept of the piece came to me, but I’ll just try to summarize what it will be about!
So:
fava.matthew 2:05 PM | The suspense is killing me!
Luis Ramirez 2:06 PM | how to start…
2:08 | What I am imagining is how a prehispanic civilization would look if their customs and religion had survived until the modern era. More specifically, I am focusing on the myth of the feathered serpent, which was a deity that for the Mayans was called Kukulkán and for the Aztecs Quetzalcoatl. This deity was their connection between the underworld, earth (hence the snake) to the heaven (hence the feathers). So I am dealing with a sort of prehispanic futuristic mythology and whatever that means
2:10 | But more specifically, every equinox there’s this phenomenon at the Chichén Itza archeological site where the shadow that the steps create only when the sun is in this location (twice a year) looks like a snake, so there’s a lot of mysticism surrounding that and nowadays it’s the place for a ritual where everyone wears white and goes there to cleanse themselves of their problems and work on their relationship with nature
fava.matthew 2:11 PM | Intense, and an appreciably more meaningful response than my simple question might usually invoke!
Luis Ramirez 2:12 PM | So with my orchestral work I want to imagine what this futuristic snake looks like and how it would absolve us from the mental health problems of our modern times
fava.matthew 2:12 PM | I hope you know that your orchestral piece has a very likely future as a sci-fi/magical realism novella?
Luis Ramirez 2:13 PM | Ouffgh, I would LOVE THAT
2:14 | I like to use the orchestra in a very visual way, whatever that means
2:15 | What I did with my previous orchestral work, Chido, was think in very cinematographic terms, from the perspective of a movie director and handling it with many of those factors that a director has to consider: lighting, photography, edition, etc.
So I am conceiving of this piece for the HPO in a similar way
fava.matthew 2:16 PM | Luis, thank you for being so generous with this interview! We should wrap up at this point
Luis Ramirez 2:16 PM | Oh, it was my pleasure!
fava.matthew 2:16 PM | But
I do have to ask one clarifying question
Were you awkwardly stalking Philip Glass in 2018?
Luis Ramirez 2:16 PM | It depends… are you his lawyer?
fava.matthew 2:17 PM | HAHAHA no, just an amused instagram peruser
Luis Ramirez 2:17 PM | hahahahaha, then OF COURSE IT’S FREAKING PHILIP GLASS